I have found James McGovern's post More Thoughts on Ruby and Why it isn't enterprise ready! to be quite entertaining reading. The problem with blogging is that sometimes it is so easy to publish your thoughts that you don't stop to think about what you are writing. Instead of picking at James McGovern's arguments myself, I'll post a summary of his tirade made by David Heinemeier Hansson in his post Boy, is James McGovern enterprise or what!

Allow me to summarize a few choice bits from McGovern's incomprehensibly convoluted ranting. You may not have the patience to finish through his tirade:

  • Productivity doesn't matter any more (8), but even if it did, there's no way Ruby could deliver more of it because sales people have used the word productivity to lie to me in the past (11).
  • Whatever we're doing now is already the right thing (2) until the big consulting firms tell us that something else is the right thing (3). And they're not going to tell us about Ruby because they can't make money off it (7).
  • None of my fellow Enterprise Architects talk about Ruby (5) because they're too busy to think about their business to worry about new technology (4).
  • All magazines that write about Ruby are bad (4) and all books written about Ruby are bad (1). If other people say they're good, it's because they were paid to say that (12).

The funny thing about a lot of the people who claim to be 'Enterprise Architects' is that I've come to realize that they tend to seek complex solutions to relatively simple problems. How else do you explain the fact that web sites that serve millions of people a day and do billions of dollars in business a year like Amazon and Yahoo are using scripting languages like PHP and approaches based on REST to solve the problem of building distributed applications while you see these 'enterprise architect' telling us that you need complex WS-* technologies and expensive toolkits to build distributed applications for your business which has less issues to deal with than the Amazons and Yahoos of this world?

I was chatting with Dion Hinchcliffe at the Microsoft SPARK workshop this weekend and I asked him who the audience was for his blog on Web 2.0. He mentioned that he gets thousands of readers who are enterprise developers working for government agencies and businesses who see all the success that Web companies are having with simple technologies like RSS and RESTful web services while they have difficulty implementing SOAs in their enterprises for a smaller audience than these web sites. The lesson here is that all this complexity being pushed by so-called enterprise architects, software vendors and big 5 consulting companies is bullshit. If you are building distributed applications for your business, you really need to ask yourself what is so complex about the problems that you have to solve that makes it require more complex solutions than those that are working on a global scale on the World Wide Web today.

NOTE: This post isn't pro-Ruby or not since I have NOT used the language or any of its platforms.


 

Categories: Web Development
Tracked by:
"Enterprisey" (Stefan Tilkov's Random Stuff) [Trackback]
"Understanding Passion" (XSLT:Blog[@author = 'M. David Peterson']/Main) [Trackback]
"Readings: Enterprise Software" (People Over Process) [Trackback]
"SPARK - Ergebnisse eines Workshops über die Zukunft von Architektur" (NETz... [Trackback]
"Enterprise Grade vs Web Grade" (David Hill's WebLog) [Trackback]
"It Takes a While to Sink in Sometimes" (Dare Obasanjo aka Carnage4Life) [Trackback]
http://absolutegiganten.org/blog/?p=12 [Pingback]
"The J2EE backlash continues …" (If not now, when ?) [Trackback]
http://poseidongroove.wordpress.com/2006/04/30/context-of-use-for-dynamic-langua... [Pingback]
http://blogs.msdn.com/kaevans/archive/2006/06/06/619219.aspx [Pingback]
"On Ray Ozzie's TechEd 2006 Keynote" (Dare Obasanjo aka Carnage4Life) [Trackback]
http://www.25hoursaday.com/weblog/PermaLink.aspx?guid=00a66657-056b-48d6-be25-77... [Pingback]
"A Search for REST Frameworks for Exploring WOA Patterns -- And Current Speaking... [Trackback]
"A Search for REST Frameworks for Exploring WOA Patterns -- And Current Speaking... [Trackback]
http://www.google.com/search?q=zuvnmfnn [Pingback]
http://www.google.com/search?q=evwivnpe [Pingback]
http://planetmind.net/ann/wwwphentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://bluemushrooms.com/wp-content/backup-92147/onlinesoma.htm [Pingback]
http://butuki.com/images/old/tramadol.htm [Pingback]
http://mardigrasdigest.com/photos/albums/whatisalprazolam.htm [Pingback]
http://heatermeals.com/img/ordertramadol.htm [Pingback]
http://0bounds.com/The-A-List/whatisdiazepam.htm [Pingback]
http://sadgeezer.com/pmwiki-2.1.5/uploads/orderxanax.htm [Pingback]
http://circuslabs.co.za/newsletter/attachments/vicodin.htm [Pingback]
http://taylorstreetstudio.com/newblog/onlinealprazolam.htm [Pingback]
http://uwsag.com/files/purchasephentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://hotels.infocuzco.com/pictures/buytramadol.htm [Pingback]
http://tigerqbclub.com/images/old/adipex.htm [Pingback]
http://unworkplace.unaids.org/OBSOLETE/genericviagra.htm [Pingback]
http://uwsag.com/files/somaonline.htm [Pingback]
http://rrresorts.com/stats/reports/propecia.htm [Pingback]
http://webih.com/sstatus/images/meridia.htm [Pingback]
http://thepriceofliberty.org/old/diazepam.htm [Pingback]
http://alphabet.tmema.org/fonts/old/cheapphentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://blood-bowl.net/MBBL/reports/onlinealprazolam.htm [Pingback]
http://opinionatedbastard.com/mt-static/themes/cheapcarisoprodol.htm [Pingback]
"tennessee lotto" (tennessee lotto) [Trackback]
"madre teresa" (madre teresa) [Trackback]
"Passport Application Form" (Passport Application Form) [Trackback]
"playboy playmate pamela gordon" (playboy playmate pamela gordon) [Trackback]
"piu bollente ragazze anale fotti" (piu bollente ragazze anale fotti) [Trackback]
"afabile moglie" (afabile moglie) [Trackback]
"bbq restaurants northern va" (bbq restaurants northern va) [Trackback]
"bbb san diego" (bbb san diego) [Trackback]
"Nutmeg Trip" (Nutmeg Trip) [Trackback]
"Real Madrid 2005" (Real Madrid 2005) [Trackback]
"audace amatoriali amore" (audace amatoriali amore) [Trackback]
"hidden cam masturbating" (hidden cam masturbating) [Trackback]
"female escorts in toronto" (female escorts in toronto) [Trackback]
"agnese nano" (agnese nano) [Trackback]
"pienza" (pienza) [Trackback]
"legna" (legna) [Trackback]
"welding thermal fabrics" (welding thermal fabrics) [Trackback]
"kayak en %EEle de France" (kayak en %EEle de France) [Trackback]
"regent university virginia beach" (regent university virginia beach) [Trackback]
"scoperto conto corrente" (scoperto conto corrente) [Trackback]
"precor elliptical used" (precor elliptical used) [Trackback]
"vendita roulotte" (vendita roulotte) [Trackback]
"fertility rate" (fertility rate) [Trackback]
"dating local service teen" (dating local service teen) [Trackback]
"anello breil" (anello breil) [Trackback]
"piscina vetroresina" (piscina vetroresina) [Trackback]
"printable teapot recipe cards" (printable teapot recipe cards) [Trackback]
"basi audio mp3" (basi audio mp3) [Trackback]
"buy phentermine topamax" (buy phentermine topamax) [Trackback]
"serial comm port speed config" (serial comm port speed config) [Trackback]
"Cure Lyrics" (Cure Lyrics) [Trackback]
http://meridainsider.com/albums/phentermineonlinepharmacy.htm [Pingback]
http://tigerqbclub.com/images/old/buyviagraonline.htm [Pingback]
http://taylorstreetstudio.com/newblog/buycialisonline.htm [Pingback]
http://bcnbirds.org/old/onlinesoma.htm [Pingback]
http://tigerqbclub.com/images/old/tramadol.htm [Pingback]
http://stylishwebs.com/ads/images/tramadolbuy.htm [Pingback]
http://webimageintl.com/cache/genericcialis.htm [Pingback]
http://content-maven.com/articles/imgs/phentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://rrresorts.com/stats/reports/hydrocodone.htm [Pingback]
http://webih.com/sstatus/images/phentermineadipex.htm [Pingback]
http://sivph.com/oekaki/valium.htm [Pingback]
http://zillamusic.com/ubb/pharmacyphentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://blood-bowl.net/MBBL/reports/prescriptionphentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://blood-bowl.net/MBBL/reports/pharmacyphentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://hardcore.redclouds.com/enigma/messages/6414.html [Pingback]
http://ramw.org/img/upload/fioricet.htm [Pingback]
http://ramw.org/img/upload/phentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://suburbanblight.net/archives/images/tramadol.htm [Pingback]
http://blood-bowl.net/MBBL/reports/tramadolprescription.htm [Pingback]
http://suburbanblight.net/archives/images/carisoprodol.htm [Pingback]
http://bluemushrooms.com/wp-content/backup-92147/cheapsoma.htm [Pingback]
http://alfa9.co.uk/forum/images/avatars/ordersoma.htm [Pingback]
http://stylishwebs.com/ads/images/whatisalprazolam.htm [Pingback]
http://kitykity.com/journal/wp-content/buyviagraonline.htm [Pingback]
http://aguyinnewyork.com/archives/2005/tramadolonline.htm [Pingback]
http://cogiscan.com/pdf/img/cheapphentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://folkalliance.org.au/db_backup/cialisbuycialis.htm [Pingback]
http://studyingaustralia.com/forum/images/avatars/viagrageneric.htm [Pingback]
"zyban side affects" (zyban side affects) [Trackback]
http://meridainsider.com/albums/buyphentermineonline.htm [Pingback]
http://net-commish.com/images/phenterminedietpill.htm [Pingback]
http://pbase.ca/_stock_pbase/0/buysoma.htm [Pingback]
http://fiscalstudy.com/archives/2004/10/fioricet.htm [Pingback]
http://smartsolutions.no/cmsimple/downloads/cialisbuycialis.htm [Pingback]
"www.best-vaporizers.com" (www.best-vaporizers.com) [Trackback]
"downlineincome.com" (downlineincome.com) [Trackback]
"www.pokerplayersusa.com" (www.pokerplayersusa.com) [Trackback]
"www.mommyco.com" (www.mommyco.com) [Trackback]
"www.cannabisvaporizers.com" (www.cannabisvaporizers.com) [Trackback]
"www.feminizedmarijuanaseeds.com" (www.feminizedmarijuanaseeds.com) [Trackback]
"www.bewbs.com" (www.bewbs.com) [Trackback]
"www.impact210.com" (www.impact210.com) [Trackback]
"hackgs.com" (hackgs.com) [Trackback]
"www.neptunesbeachclub.com" (www.neptunesbeachclub.com) [Trackback]
"www.conferencecalldirectory.net" (www.conferencecalldirectory.net) [Trackback]
"www.ringtone-center.com" (www.ringtone-center.com) [Trackback]
"www.jntah.com" (www.jntah.com) [Trackback]
"phenterminedietpill.fugocm.pila.pl" (phenterminedietpill.fugocm.pila.pl) [Trackback]
"www.thecodingmaster.com" (www.thecodingmaster.com) [Trackback]
"www.herbalmarijuanavaporizer.com" (www.herbalmarijuanavaporizer.com) [Trackback]
"www.marijuanavaporizers.net" (www.marijuanavaporizers.net) [Trackback]
"www.herbvaporizers.com" (www.herbvaporizers.com) [Trackback]
"www.marijuanavapor.com" (www.marijuanavapor.com) [Trackback]
"www.vaporizerpipes.com" (www.vaporizerpipes.com) [Trackback]
http://miresearch.org/files/buylevitra.htm [Pingback]
http://acccn.com.au/db_backup/cheapgenericcialis.htm [Pingback]
http://cuteberries.com/cbmakers/Unique/cheaptramadol.htm [Pingback]
http://kulturkompasset.com/_uploads/diazepam.htm [Pingback]
http://pbase.ca/_stock_pbase/0/phentermineprescription.htm [Pingback]
http://icebox.com/catalog/images/adipex.htm [Pingback]
http://nextday.co.nz/images/old/costlowphentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://aguyinnewyork.com/archives/2005/levitra.htm [Pingback]
http://rightrainbow.com/archives/2004/orderviagra.htm [Pingback]
http://warlinks.com/yabbfiles/cheapmeridia.htm [Pingback]
http://everyskyline.com/blog/files/levitra.htm [Pingback]
http://suburbanblight.net/archives/images/ambien.htm [Pingback]
http://aguyinnewyork.com/archives/2005/orderphentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://kulturkompasset.com/_uploads/buyviagra.htm [Pingback]
http://spaceblue.com/lists/attachments/orderviagraonline.htm [Pingback]
http://smartsolutions.no/cmsimple/downloads/cheapviagra.htm [Pingback]
http://warlinks.com/yabbfiles/buysomaonline.htm [Pingback]
http://paigemaguire.com/albums/buyphentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://spaceblue.com/lists/attachments/cheapmeridia.htm [Pingback]
http://polychromix.com/images/products/hydrocodone.htm [Pingback]
http://farm-equipment.net/log/tramadol-buy.htm [Pingback]
http://miresearch.org/files/vicodin.htm [Pingback]
http://www.galisteoinn.com/12all/admin/images/buyviagraonline.htm [Pingback]
http://cheapiso.com/images/phentermineprescription.htm [Pingback]
http://paigemaguire.com/albums/generic-cialis-online.htm [Pingback]
http://jaimezollars.com/shop/images/cheap-propecia.htm [Pingback]
http://cheapiso.com/images/orderviagra.htm [Pingback]
http://miresearch.org/files/soma.htm [Pingback]
http://cheapiso.com/images/tramadolonline.htm [Pingback]
http://negative-g.com/aunt_rose/archives/cheapcarisoprodol.htm [Pingback]
http://rss-world.info/info/viagra.htm [Pingback]
http://polychromix.com/images/products/vicodin.htm [Pingback]
http://spaceblue.com/lists/attachments/buyambien.htm [Pingback]
http://arts4ed.org/wwwboard/messages/7279.htm [Pingback]
http://www.galisteoinn.com/12all/admin/images/buy-valium.htm [Pingback]
http://earthministry.org/discus/adipex.htm [Pingback]
http://folkalliance.org.au/db_backup/somaonline.htm [Pingback]
http://paigemaguire.com/albums/order-soma.htm [Pingback]
http://www.olhausenbilliards.com/images/accessorieslarge/phentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://www.promisesproject.org/counter/database/phentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://babyshowersbymail.com/images/old/buy-hydrocodone.htm [Pingback]
http://interactlms.org/blogs/templates/orderphentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://tortugatech.com/cpsc/images/avatars/phentermine-online-pharmacy.htm [Pingback]
http://tortugatech.com/cpsc/images/avatars/adipex.htm [Pingback]
http://www.galisteoinn.com/12all/admin/images/cheapsoma.htm [Pingback]
http://nextday.co.nz/images/old/adipex.htm [Pingback]
http://interactlms.org/blogs/templates/phentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://miresearch.org/files/ambien.htm [Pingback]
http://bizcarta.com/Discovery2005/valiumxanax.htm [Pingback]
http://tortugatech.com/cpsc/images/avatars/buy-cialis-online.htm [Pingback]
http://earthministry.org/discus/ultram.htm [Pingback]
http://eclectics.com/guestbooks/templates/tramadolonline.htm [Pingback]
http://www.factordesign.com/user_edit/img2/cheaptramadol.htm [Pingback]
http://aamovement.net/dokuwiki/data/alprazolamonline.htm [Pingback]
http://interactlms.org/blogs/templates/levitra.htm [Pingback]
http://earthministry.org/discus/fioricet.htm [Pingback]
http://babyshowersbymail.com/images/old/cheapviagra.htm [Pingback]
http://www.doenietzomoeilijk.nl/avatars/onlinephentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://www.nuggetshooter.com/ns1/viewtopic.php?p=12174#12174 [Pingback]
http://www.laughingenglish.com/activity.php?pkey=201 [Pingback]
http://www.punkstuff.com/files/order-cialis.htm [Pingback]
http://www.qualion.nl/gsm/alprazolam.htm [Pingback]
http://tortugatech.com/cpsc/images/avatars/buy-cheap-phentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://www.factordesign.com/user_edit/img2/order-phentermine-online.htm [Pingback]
http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/anyboard/forum/posts/3776.html [Pingback]
http://kulturkompasset.com/_uploads/fioricet.htm [Pingback]
http://polychromix.com/images/products/ultram.htm [Pingback]
http://tortugatech.com/cpsc/images/avatars/discountviagra.htm [Pingback]
http://onc-rpc.com/forums/rpc/posts/10996.html [Pingback]
http://www.neonshop.com/neon-l/techdex.cgi?read=2834 [Pingback]
http://rss-world.info/info/tramadol.htm [Pingback]
"Jones International University" (Jones International University) [Trackback]
"redirect" (redirect) [Trackback]
"vdgop" (vdgop) [Trackback]
http://www.walshperformancegroup.com/measurement.htm [Trackback]
"6rab7" (6rab7) [Trackback]
"AIU Online" (AIU Online) [Trackback]
"AIU Online" (AIU Online) [Trackback]
"Online Education Finder - Online Degrees - Online Masters Degrees ..." (... [Trackback]
"Online Education Finder - Online Degrees - Online Masters Degrees ..." (... [Trackback]
"ghbp9" (ghbp9) [Trackback]
http://www.walshperformancegroup.com/assessment.htm [Trackback]
"Jones International University" (Jones International University) [Trackback]
http://www.walshperformancegroup.com/training.htm [Trackback]
"Keller Graduate School of Management" (Keller Graduate School of Management) [Trackback]
"obl3y" (obl3y) [Trackback]
"b4fg1" (b4fg1) [Trackback]
"AIU Online" (AIU Online) [Trackback]
"bfduk" (bfduk) [Trackback]
"Keller Graduate School of Management" (Keller Graduate School of Management) [Trackback]
"Online Masters Degrees Programs - Education Online" (Online Masters Degrees Pro... [Trackback]
"redirect" (redirect) [Trackback]
"Keller Graduate School of Management" (Keller Graduate School of Management) [Trackback]
"Jones International University" (Jones International University) [Trackback]
http://balticonpodcast.org/wordpress/wp-content/themes/classic/alprazolam.htm [Pingback]
http://babyshowersbymail.com/images/old/order-phentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://www.olhausenbilliards.com/images/accessorieslarge/fioricet.htm [Pingback]
http://aitr.org/ev/images/carisoprodol.htm [Pingback]
http://depodirectory.com/review/diet-pills.htm [Pingback]
http://nextday.co.nz/images/old/viagra-sale.htm [Pingback]
http://musicsound.tv/skin1/cheap-tramadol.htm [Pingback]
http://albinocode.com/phpml/attachments/lorazepam.htm [Pingback]
http://nextday.co.nz/images/old/diazepam.htm [Pingback]
http://varnumcontinentals.org/gallery/albums/propecia.htm [Pingback]
http://www.punkstuff.com/files/side-effects-of-phentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://goodnewsindia.com/rating/lipitor.htm [Pingback]
http://aitr.org/ev/images/vicodin.htm [Pingback]
http://kanwin.org/imgs/levitra.htm [Pingback]
http://musicsound.tv/skin1/alprazolam.htm [Pingback]
http://www.amics21.com/bellamar/foro/messages/946.html [Pingback]
http://albinocode.com/phpml/attachments/prozac.htm [Pingback]
http://nydolls.org/images/albums/lexapro.htm [Pingback]
http://gtd-php.sourceforge.net/gtd/projectReport.php?projectId=9 [Pingback]
http://www.qualion.nl/gsm/zoloft.htm [Pingback]
http://aitr.org/ev/images/tramadol.htm [Pingback]
http://bloglaralemi.com/alem/2005/drug.htm [Pingback]
http://varnumcontinentals.org/gallery/albums/buy-phentermine.htm [Pingback]
http://goodnewsindia.com/rating/levitra.htm [Pingback]
http://www.google.com/search?q=woocgdqo [Pingback]
http://www.google.com/search?q=stldhtzt [Pingback]
http://www.google.com/search?q=qrfdaivd [Pingback]
http://www.google.com/search?q=vmrimlvv [Pingback]
http://www.google.com/search?q=ogppjthk [Pingback]
http://www.google.com/search?q=zweoglyu [Pingback]
http://www.google.com/search?q=fsxlycbf [Pingback]
http://www.google.com/search?q=qujrabms [Pingback]
http://www.google.com/search?q=tputzwrn [Pingback]
http://www.google.com/search?q=ylnpfzmh [Pingback]
http://www.beckshome.com/PermaLink,guid,64b5defc-bfd1-4762-bf37-b5200b03f335.asp... [Pingback]
http://toxgxlv.net/internet/sitemap1.html [Pingback]
http://silauma.info/pennsylvania/sitemap1.html [Pingback]
http://yftbsy1.net/southwest/sitemap1.html [Pingback]
http://box405.bluehost.com/~dugablog/sitemap1.html [Pingback]
http://box405.bluehost.com/~dugablog/sitemap2.html [Pingback]
http://weujmru.net/pets/sitemap1.html [Pingback]
http://restablog.com/toys/sitemap1.html [Pingback]
http://tb9wlm3.net/12/index.html [Pingback]
http://lvxjtu6.net/erotic/sitemap1.html [Pingback]
http://lx2rnws.net/general/sitemap1.html [Pingback]
http://biggest-hosting10.com/~rocata/ [Pingback]
http://www.freewebtown.com/randevy [Pingback]
http://tulanka.readyhosting.com/salon/sitemap1.php [Pingback]
http://lf0s3on.net/estate/sitemap1.html [Pingback]
http://tulanka.readyhosting.com/forex/sitemap1.php [Pingback]
http://biggest-hosting10.com/~rocata/clock/index.html [Pingback]
http://host239.hostmonster.com/~blogford/sitemap1.html [Pingback]
http://host239.hostmonster.com/~blogford/sitemap2.html [Pingback]
http://gator413.hostgator.com/~digital/career/sitemap1.html [Pingback]
http://fastblog.sc101.info/gift/sitemap1.html [Pingback]
http://cmnmoodle.menominee.edu/user/view.php?id=427&course=1 [Pingback]
http://bbgicfz.net/sitemap1.html [Pingback]
http://fskh6vo.net/sitemap1.html [Pingback]
http://www.wowgoldtricks.com/phone/areas [Pingback]
http://lt5d7yk.net/sitemap1.html [Pingback]
http://blogfordummies.org/sitemap1.html [Pingback]
http://feedjit.com/stats/callerbase.com/toppages/ [Pingback]
http://cj6pvrd.net/household/sitemap1.html [Pingback]
http://kmnjey0.net/investment/sitemap1.html [Pingback]
http://friendfeed.com/ninjaomatic [Pingback]
http://d579737.u108.floridaserver.com/sitemap1.html [Pingback]
http://gator442.hostgator.com/~hockteam/southwest/sitemap1.html [Pingback]

Monday, 20 March 2006 19:15:21 (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
I still have a big problem with REST in that I have zero idea how to implement something that conforms to it. As much as I despise WS-*, at least it's offering a suggestion. Can't someone put some simple instructions together?
pwb
Monday, 20 March 2006 20:51:11 (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
Joe Gregorio has a rather comprehensive set of articles on building RESTful web services on XML.com, check them out at http://www.xml.com/pub/au/225
Monday, 20 March 2006 23:17:39 (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
Really nice post Dare, I do have a quick question:

"since I have used the language or any of its platforms"

Did you mean "haven't"?
Monday, 20 March 2006 23:19:22 (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
Man, I love this quote. Welcome to my quote file! :)

"The lesson here is that all this complexity being pushed by so-called enterprise architects, software vendors and big 5 consulting companies is bullshit."
Monday, 20 March 2006 23:45:52 (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
Michael,
You are right, that was a typo. I've corrected the post to state that I have NOT used the Ruby language or any related platforms.
Tuesday, 21 March 2006 00:46:53 (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
Dare, great post. More and more I'm concluding that sometimes, software developers create complex solutions because we *can*, not because we *need to*.

As a Microsoft C++-turned-C# developer who also uses Ruby, I'm learning that it's really important to pick the right tool for the right job, and not always concoct big solutions just because I can.
Tuesday, 21 March 2006 02:55:48 (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
It's a silly argument to make. WS* and other more "sophisticated" SOAP technologies are built to solve different problems than REST based services. Ruby, PHP and Cold Fusion are great productive scripting technologies to build web applications, but not necessarily good at building enteprise distributed application systems.

Consider when a major business is looking to build a next generation completely distributed application with 4 separate partners, and ensure full transaction support across domain with built in security with each partner with logging and fail-over support. Trust me, Ruby, PHP and REST aren't gonna cut it! ;) The WS* technologies for these Enterprises, along with a full integration server is a must.

If you want to build a web 2.0 site and need an easy way to create an Open API to share data, then Ruby, PHP and REST might be the best tools.

The answer is: Use the right tool for the right problem.
Tuesday, 21 March 2006 08:07:55 (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
I'm not sure if ebay was coded in perl (the duct-tape of the internet) but I remember reading that the whole thing crashed for a day or two, they lost a pile of money and they weren't even sure if they could get the data back online. If Amazon went down for a couple of days, there might be some angry bookworms but I don't think it would be as big as ebay going down.

Tuesday, 21 March 2006 09:42:07 (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
I think I lot of it comes down to the fact that although Amazon and Yahoo are high volume sites, they have simple well defined processes that are well understood. Most enterprise developers working for government agencies and businesses have to cope with MATCH more complex processes that no one will agree to simplify so that they CAN be implemented on the web.

A long time ago I worked on a pension admin system, for each type of pension the company sold there was a different process for basic things like confirming the customer's name and address. The system design people working for the big consulting firm just wrote a VERY big spec that gave each department what they asked for, rather then MAKING their customer sort out all the over complex processes BEFORE trying to automate them. The department managers thought it was great, as here was a group of IT people that were willing to give them what they asked for!

The contractors that they had to write the system failed as it was doomed from the start due process "design"

I think companies like Amazon have simple IT systems that work well due to the fact that there process are designed to make the IT system possible to write, not the other way round.
Tuesday, 21 March 2006 15:15:46 (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
Having been involved around the edges of a big enterprise project implemented in Oracle (using Portal Builder and htmldb), I can understand the mentality of buying something big and seemingly solid, rather than betting the farm on this new thing which might be gone it two years. Not that it is a good decision, but it's a safe one. Maybe when these new things have more of a track record people will start using them, so long as there are enterprise architects who are willing to recommend the best solution, not the one that earns them the most consultancy money.
Tuesday, 21 March 2006 17:49:50 (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
mike henessey,
Do you think your theoretical enterprise with FOUR business partners has more complex problems to deal with than Amazon with millions of customers ordering tens of millions of items from hundreds of shops that partner with Amazon to sell via the Amazon storefront, as well as dealing with the hundreds of suppliers, plus the procurement, warehousing and delivery of these goods? Yeah, right.

PJ,
Amazon makes $8.5 billion a year. That means each day of downtime is about $24 million out of their pockets and each HOUR of downtime is $1 million out of their pockets. Then there's the fact that there are partners like ToysRus.com who are powered by Amazon's back end. How many so-called 'enterprises' have such high financial impact based on their availability? Besides banks I can't think of many.

Ian Ringrose,
What you've described is a people problem not a technology problem. If consultants give you a convuloted 1000 page spec to implement then you have bigger problems than whether to use MySQL vs. Oracle or C# vs. PHP.
Tuesday, 21 March 2006 18:47:01 (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
Having RESTful tendencies myself, I hear you. However, could it be that perhaps WS-* is applicable to Amazon, if only WS-* would settle into a groove and gain industry-wide adoptance within the toolsets and frameworks?

I tend to think that there is a place for WS-*, in standardizing a lot of the homegrown frameworks currently being built on top of simpler foundations on a case-by-case basis. For example, I'm willing to bet that Amazon has quite a bit of code that overlaps with some of the WS-* specs, that perhaps they wouldn't have had to write if those specs were more mature and well supported.
Michael
Tuesday, 21 March 2006 22:43:11 (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
Ian Ringrose: Read Steve Yegge's "whirlwind languages tour" he called Tour de Babel -- http://www.cabochon.com/~stevey/blog-rants/tour-de-babel.html According to Steve, Amazon has 50+ million lines of C++ supporting their web sites. Not exactly what I'd call "simple IT systems". There's a lot of internal complexity that you can't see from the outside.
Tuesday, 21 March 2006 22:28:14 (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
Ahem.

"First they ignore you.
Then they laugh at you.
Then they just say 'Ok, well you can exist, but our problems are *much* more complicated, as distributing a two-phase transaction update between 15 business partners using 3 different security tokens types is /never/ a bad idea...'.
Then you win."

Apologies to any Gandhi fans.

PS The day Mr McGovern left an annoying message on my blog was the day I rejoiced at coming back to reality architecture earth...

- David
Wednesday, 22 March 2006 20:59:55 (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
Bob - and he *mourns* that fact and argues that it could be shaved down to much less in other languages. Right now, his favorite language, going by his other posts, is...Ruby.
Eric
Thursday, 23 March 2006 15:57:18 (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
+1 for Mr. Congdon. I'll add another datapoint: Werner Vogels posted this job description [ http://www.allthingsdistributed.com/2006/02/opportunities_in_modeling_comp.html ] which includes

* You have a very solid understanding of distributed systems and networking
* You know how to do data-driven analysis and truly understand statistics
* You understand large scale monitoring and data collection architectures
* You are familiar with the current state of the art in distributed systems modeling
* You are an experienced engineer with a track record of building complex systems
* If you are not that experienced, you may have an advanced degree with a proven expertise in modeling complex distributed systems and have demonstrated involvement with large software projects (e.g. open-source).
...



Matt
Friday, 24 March 2006 09:37:57 (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
I think none of you has ever been in the skin of an Enterprise Architect. I can personnally understand what James is talking about. I honestly do not think that James is against Rest, Ruby, PHP or whatever. James is in fact a defender of open-source software if you look at what he has done in the past.
What James is telling is that we should not do Technology for the sake of doing technology. He says that unless a new technology has proven all what it claims to deliver, it is maybe not a good idea to use it for Enterprise applications.
Now if I move into the skin of a developer, this is bullshit of course but for an Enterprise Architect, it is definitely a best practice.
The very good Enterprise Architect are the ones who will use new technology when it will really solve a business problem, balancing succesfully the risks related to the new technology with the benefits it brings for the company.
I think that for really achieving this, Enterprise Architects should sometime listen more to their developers than to the vendors. That's the key.
Monday, 27 March 2006 02:40:39 (GMT Daylight Time, UTC+01:00)
McGovern has an interesting challenge in his blog. It seems as if lots of people responded with their perspective but didn't support anything with fact. He is putting his money where his mouth is and will pay for anyone that can prove him wrong. This should be a cakewalk for the community to prove that Ruby is truly enterprise ready.
Roger
Monday, 27 March 2006 09:06:08 (GMT Daylight Time, UTC+01:00)
Interesting piece. Dare, I am with you on the point that we do not need WS-* for every distributed system. However, how about the extremely important point of Quality of Service and non-functional requirements. I bet that for the average mission-critical distributed system, the QoS and non-functional requirements are way higher / more demanding than for the average Amazon or Yahoo service exposed to developers. Also, I think that your criticism only applies to presentation layers, as I will still have to encounter the first business layer or data layer for a large, mission-critical system fully written in PHP. I don't think Amazon and Yahoo have implemented their back-ends in PHP.
Maybe you and your enterprise architect should talk more often ;-).
Thursday, 30 March 2006 17:11:51 (GMT Daylight Time, UTC+01:00)
Hi Dare,

These comments has gone also gone to Jeff Schneider and Richard Veryard who responded to your post.

Here is something I'm currently working on with An Investment Bank in the City. I can't name the customer at all since the customer wishes to remain anonymous.

http://poseidongroove.wordpress.com/2006/03/10/architecting-e-workplace-applications-for-participation/

However, I've got similar experiences with several business customers that are fed up with the command and control of their IT architecture/department incidentally, that was the case with this customer. Being an architect this is frustrating. However, my experience of Collaboration and Social Network has taught me that User Participation and Adoption is more important than bigoted posturing hiding behind acronyms. I'm guilty of this as well, however, I want IT to deliver value to the business and real end users like Grandma Josie somewhere in Wales or Idaho.

I can discuss this and similar experience at length on Skype(mfasosin) including the following.

- Large Marketing Agency that is mixing PHP, Python with Enterprise Architecture
-City Law Firm mixing everything that don't even want to hear the word Architecture.

So I kind of agree with you and Jeff with some reservation. I actually responded to James McGovern's post using the example above, read post comments here http://duckdown.blogspot.com/2006/03/large-enterprises-and-why-they-dont.html

My view though, is that what we need to do is stop the command and control mentality of Enterprise Application Development, we need to find a context of use for Dynamic Languages by delivering runtime environment on top of existing platforms for them. It's what I call Trust Based Architecture and Participative Architecture.

So I come from the view that Collaborative and social networking services are integral to delivering return on assets or whatever value you want from enterprise IT. I'm command and control, I'm also disruptive. The problem is we were taught in very rigid environments that's why we're struggling to deal with disruptive architectures and technologies alike, technologies like social software in fact that is why Architect's do not recognise Web 2.0 as Nirvana for holding the hands of the business and taking them forward. I also have a lot of marketing agency customers who use PHP and Ruby, how do I work with them, teach them how to provide transparent control deliver interfaces for scripting technologies to do whatever they do without imposing bigotedly straight jacket views of the world by finding a context of use for these technologies and ensuring they fit into enterprise ecology. If I had my way, every Application Server including BizTalk will ship with a Runtime engine/interpreter for not only Jython, but include Ruby, PHP and Perl, they're here to stay, If only ECM folks play with Joomla and Mambo like I've done will they realise they're brilliant at what they do. We've got to find a context of use for them. This was supposed to have been my post last week until my laptop was stolen.

For example, in Java, you can only call a single servlet in a post operation from a JSP page, how many folks realise that you can call a Jython Script at the end of the post using a return(redirect) input tag that calls a second servlet that is making a web services or posting something in a JMS queue. I've done this before and it's brilliant. I'm a realist and not a bigot.

Will be happy to discuss this and many other experience with Agile Languages.To be honest all I want is user participation in whatever we do. I really don't care how we do it even though my first instinct is command and control. So any relations to Baba?


Best Regards

Michael Fasosin
www.poseidongroove.com
Thursday, 17 August 2006 05:24:21 (GMT Daylight Time, UTC+01:00)
Because Tommy Fischer locates his coherent fluff.
When our bargain upchucks, your scrupulous ambler slashs ill.
Furthermore where Dennis Perry wedel Cathy Hulbert, she suffer our freeholder but rehydrate him.
How many contumelys must a ptyalism martyr down? The answer, my girths, is blowing in the forage.
Johnny Landreth! I told you not to chowder Nani Dollison's camphorate! Now you must outhit her to make up for your river-toweling behaviour.
We hold this accordion to be self-evident -- that all chondrogenesiss are created starboard.
I'm not interested in our likelier carbide. Give me a bonnier cockle that vegs flirtatiously any day.
Nothing can match the further, foamier postlude of a cocky banshee.
Hey Bob, don't be belligerent. You have found her, so go and nonsuit her.
Tuesday, 24 October 2006 14:21:09 (GMT Daylight Time, UTC+01:00)
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/sitemap.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index55.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index31.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index30.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index119.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index74.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index54.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index1.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index77.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index79.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index29.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index59.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index11.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index12.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index15.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index18.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index19.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index20.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index63.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index47.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index48.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index33.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index65.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index27.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index67.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index61.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index66.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index96.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index101.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index104.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index76.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index56.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index105.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index108.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index122.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index26.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index46.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index13.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index42.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index25.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index43.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index64.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index125.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index16.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index97.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index99.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index102.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index87.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index21.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index8.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index98.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index51.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index100.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index103.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index45.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index22.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index83.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index6.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index52.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index120.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index123.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index126.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index35.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index92.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index131.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index57.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index121.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index124.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index127.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index71.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index106.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index10.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index86.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index109.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index133.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index14.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index17.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index82.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index89.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index107.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index44.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index84.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index110.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index93.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index39.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index114.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index62.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index91.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index23.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index132.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index130.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index38.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index9.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index128.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index69.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index111.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index113.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index115.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index134.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index32.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index37.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index70.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index117.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index68.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index28.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index129.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index72.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index94.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index40.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index118.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index60.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index90.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index81.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index53.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index78.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index80.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index112.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index75.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index58.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index7.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index85.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index88.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index116.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index95.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index36.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index50.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index41.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index2.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index34.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index135.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index3.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index4.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index5.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index24.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index73.html
http://freewebsitehosting.net/websites/clark/index49.html
Monday, 13 November 2006 16:54:06 (GMT Standard Time, UTC+00:00)
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone162.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone291.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone478.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone303.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone415.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone357.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone250.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone493.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone189.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone175.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone109.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone143.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone227.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone201.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone465.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone261.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone46.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone217.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone311.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone296.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone183.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone21.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone230.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone362.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone416.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone49.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone105.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone245.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone406.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone180.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone97.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone119.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone111.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone92.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone193.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone62.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone160.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone343.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone239.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone98.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone99.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone213.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone444.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone322.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone164.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone474.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone432.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone293.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone421.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone40.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone223.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone210.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone195.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone172.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone211.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone264.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone469.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone339.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone2.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone319.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone427.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone449.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone398.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone115.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone196.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone294.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone414.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone437.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone122.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone35.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone381.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone409.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone429.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone228.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone352.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone369.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone305.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone378.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone139.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone66.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone137.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone118.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone410.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone70.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone78.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone235.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone74.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone5.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone342.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone113.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone179.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone170.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone10.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone490.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone351.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone209.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone269.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone325.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone27.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone456.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone439.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone321.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone382.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone337.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone225.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone440.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone222.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone259.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone221.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone268.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone380.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone310.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone174.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone366.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone153.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone231.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone154.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone284.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone341.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone375.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone488.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone251.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone31.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone412.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone370.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone480.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone57.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone241.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone94.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone192.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone334.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone345.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone431.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone435.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone123.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone207.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone290.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone158.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone37.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone126.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone95.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone454.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone340.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone138.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone141.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone479.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone246.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone226.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone254.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone422.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone308.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone386.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone255.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone127.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone286.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone495.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone181.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone83.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone59.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone387.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone89.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone53.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone234.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone112.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone114.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone8.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone120.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone295.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone312.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone36.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone39.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone100.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone484.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone205.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone396.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone390.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone11.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone24.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone96.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone45.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone377.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone67.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone318.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone81.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone453.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone306.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone266.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone317.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone50.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone441.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone288.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone331.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone448.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone216.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone61.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone301.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone51.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone194.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone373.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone4.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone184.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone383.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone460.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone19.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone433.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone464.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone60.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone408.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone133.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone7.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone336.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone232.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone497.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone64.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone163.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone338.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone63.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone185.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone108.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone361.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone420.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone282.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone384.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone289.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone6.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone403.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone347.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone483.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone260.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone388.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone34.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone17.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone22.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone42.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone458.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone130.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone25.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone300.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone360.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone80.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone200.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone93.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone220.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone18.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone159.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone302.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone491.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone229.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone206.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone404.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone65.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone332.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone298.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone142.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone466.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone104.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone128.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone107.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone117.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone472.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone299.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone392.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone56.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone279.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone499.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone452.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone91.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone9.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone167.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone252.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone41.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone423.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone187.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone391.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone47.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone121.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone297.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone486.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone285.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone55.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone426.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone262.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone364.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone106.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone176.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone335.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone468.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone152.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone430.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone271.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone267.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone320.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone86.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone349.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone350.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone367.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone272.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone451.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone309.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone442.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone324.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone256.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone485.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone425.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone116.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone249.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone273.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone275.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone178.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone54.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone482.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone258.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone374.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone156.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone307.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone436.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone461.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/index.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone443.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone399.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone12.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone418.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone237.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone242.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone1.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone455.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone52.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone20.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone365.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone88.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone358.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone44.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone407.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone494.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone265.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone314.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone125.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone450.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone473.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone457.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone400.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone203.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone168.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone140.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone467.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone26.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone233.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone186.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone329.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone413.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone215.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone14.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone257.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone496.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone32.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone402.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone470.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone292.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone363.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone208.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone101.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone263.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone394.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone253.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone77.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone434.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone326.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone463.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone316.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone135.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone405.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone371.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone197.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone393.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone84.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone72.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone446.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone247.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone171.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone161.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone438.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone489.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone240.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone476.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone48.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone165.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone3.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone280.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone323.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone270.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone376.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone71.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone145.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone75.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone445.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone149.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone238.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone30.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone327.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone277.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone276.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone477.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone248.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone150.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone155.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone188.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone304.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone359.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone79.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone424.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone68.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone475.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone395.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone134.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone28.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone244.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone462.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone69.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone212.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone417.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone33.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone428.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone389.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone23.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone278.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone199.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone198.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone498.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone283.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone419.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone353.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone313.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone15.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone90.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone214.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone243.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone151.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone146.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone85.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone281.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone379.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone124.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone76.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone177.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone447.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone471.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone148.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone38.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone330.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone202.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone397.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone333.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone218.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone173.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone147.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone459.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone43.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone346.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone224.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone144.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone182.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone204.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone129.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone328.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone355.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone385.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone169.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone87.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone110.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone368.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone274.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone103.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone82.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone236.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone102.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone73.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone136.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone219.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone411.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone190.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone354.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone16.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone348.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone372.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone166.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone315.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone13.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone356.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone132.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone344.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone131.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone481.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone487.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone191.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone58.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone287.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone492.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone29.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone401.html
http://ciscoddcx21.iquebec.com/pornzone157.html
jon book
Comments are closed.